It is irresponsible for a college not to give full disclosure to a person with a disability about their chances of success. Most careers are wrapped with challenges and adversity in the job market. It is important for those that are disabled to know that they must be as self-sufficient as possible to alleviate a company from what a business model may see as an unnecessary risk to their company and stock holders. Bottom line is that tell they all there is to know then let the student decided and not compels them to a degree field.
Colleges must have a truthful and faithful discussion with all students that are disabled about the job viability. Once a student has been told of their chances of success then they can select a career field that provides them with real opportunity to be successful in their informed chosen field of study.
Henry ,
You state, "Colleges must have a truthful and faithful discussion with all students that are disabled about the job viability." Why did you include the words "that are disabled"? Why couldn't it just be, "Colleges must have a truthful and faithful discussion with all students about the job viability"? Why you seem to be saying is that you believe students with disabilities who successfully complete a course of study are less viable on the job market and that we should be telling students with disabilities that they are wasting their time. I know you didn't say that outright, but that seems to be what you are suggesting. Be wary. That kind of statement can get you and your institution into trouble, as it suggests that you are trying to steer students with disabilities into a more narrow range of careers -- something that is expressly forbidden under Section 504.
Dr. Jane Jarrow
I believe that this is a very real issue for colleges and their employees. I struggle with this when I have students come through that have significant difficulties in completing the work or interacting with peers. I don't think that I am in any position to determine that those students can or can not function in a given field. I don't know if there is any authority in that area. I think that there should always be open and honest communication with the student but the ulimate decision is the students'. The qualities/characteristics sought by employers are as unique as the individuals that apply for the positions.
Melissa,
Go back and read what you wrote again. You are anxious to make sure that students honestly understand both the possibilities and the barriers that they face in the future world of employment. And that is as it should be. Notice, though, that not once did you mention being more concerned about this for students with disabilities than for ANY student. And THAT is as it should be, too! GRIN
Dr. Jane Jarrow
You have mistakenly interpreted what I have said. It is important for one not to assume that which is unclear. Clarification of my posting is that colleges should train/educate students on skills that they can physically do after graduating from the actual institution. Do not create within the student additional hurdles after being educated with the knowledge but unable to implement the knowledge in the work place. My statement is totally about disclosure with integrity. I hope my statement hear rules out what you had assumed.
Sorry, Henry. I am all for disclosure with integrity, and agree that this should be the policy with/for all students. But when you say, "Do not create within the student additional hurdles after being educated with the knowledge but unable to implement the knowledge in the work place," your meaning is still fuzzy. WHY are they unable to implement their new found learning in the work place?
Dr. Jane Jarrow
I am currently in a rough spot with a disabled student on this very subject. He is a bright student with alot of potential, however, his program of choice is one that has "physical demands", walking, lifting, squatting, but the student is in a wheelchair. When the student was initially enrolled, the impact of his disability on his chosen profession was not discussed with him. Now, we have a decision to make regarding how to accomomdate him.
Dena,
There really is no "decision", per se. Your obligation is to make reasonable accommodations for him within your program. If you aren't sure what "reasonable" is in this particular instance, I'd be glad to discuss it with you (JaneJarrow@aol.com). But the fact that it was not discussed with him in advance doesn't mean that he isn't aware of the way the field is typically carried out. It would have been better if it had been discussed up front and your concerns for his future were expressed, but neither have you made promises to him. It is never too late to sit down and have a frank discussion.
Dr. Jane Jarrow
Some discussion has to end. This is one that will continue because we have different viewpoints. Beliefs should be held by individuals but they must always approach each situation/student with fairness and honesty. I have exhausted all that I can with this discussion we can agree to disagree on certain points.
Thanks,
Henry
It is nice to see that other understand my point of view with disclosure.
In these circumstances we need to be honest and upfront about the job requirements. If the student is and are willing to put forth th work and the dedication to succeed than, we at least owe it to hm to help them succeed. As long as the students understand the ramifications and the work that maybe required.
Remember that our judgement shouldn't interfere with some else's life goals
Julius,
I couldn't agree more. Especially at a career school, it is easy to lose sight of the fact that students can use the education they attain for more than just the standard career path. We don't know what their final goal is, but so long as they go into things with their eyes open, I agree that we owe them the chance to try.
Dr. Jane Jarrow
I don't think so. Since I was in school (all the way back to k1-12) and in college, I had a reading disability. My high school teachers kept telling me that I wouldn't mount to anything because of this.
If it wasn't for them putting me down, I don't think I would be where I'm at now. So what, it takes me longer than a normal person to read something on my own, I still manage.
In the workforce, we cannot discriminate against a disability, so why should we try and push students away from a field that they would like to pursue because of their own disability. We see it as a disability, to them it's the way of life.
I see the point you are making, but at the same time it's unfair to discourage someone because of what we perceive their limitations may be. People with disabilities often surprise us with what they are able to accomplish and sometimes they do better than us "normal" folks.
Randy,
Your own experience has made you wise! I hear often of students who, when asked why they choose to attend college, will respond with, "Because I was tired of other people telling me what I couldn't do!" Students, with and without disabilities, have the right to try.
Dr. Jane Jarrow
Yolonda,
Interestingly, you used just the right terminology to make your point without specifying the point. You speak of "people with disabilities" rather than falling into more common usage of "the disabled". A number of years ago there was a great push to use "people-first language" -- which you did. In so doing, you establish that they are PEOPLE first, and that the disability is descriptive, not definitive (kind of like saying "people with freckles"!)). It is a great way of reminding us that disability does not limit the individual's status or inherent potential!
Dr. Jane Jarrow
A student should know the full scope of responsibiities/requirements of an occupation that they are training for in a college setting.
Just because someone is in a wheelchair does not mean that they cannot be a police officer. There are many jobs that can be done in law enforcement that do not require walking/driving a city street beat.
Susan,
I agree. When we start to think more broadly about positions, we start to see possibilities.
Dr. Jane Jarrow
The college must be honest to EACH and EVERY student regarding post grad job requirements.
In my field, our school program provides technical standards for the students which lists physical demands, motor skils, sensory/observational skills, conceptual/qualitative skills, behavioral/social skills that are required for the program & understood that those should be exhibited during the program & will be required for this field of work.
We also recognize and state in our handbook that students can perform these procedures with appropriate accommodation.
It is very important in my field of work to be able to maintain all of the listed skills above. It is important for every student to understand & recognize what they are capable of, and it is not my position to tell them that they can or cannot meet these requirements.
I have a current student that has trouble hearing. She has taken it upon her self to get a recorder for class; and she has implemented help from the school to assist her with purchase of specialized stethoscope & program to assist her when she needs to "hear" for labs/clinicals.
I have another student that has "chronic health problems" but she will not admit that she has any disability...I feel stuck by not being able to assist her more, but from this module, I have learned it is one of the "students rights & responsibilities to seek out the appropriate individual or office on campus and provide requested documentation of thier status as a person with a disability"
I am providing her with equal opportunity, however she is not physically able to maintain in some of the clinical settings and her grade is reflective of that from her preceptors at the clinical site. When I have spoke to her about this, the student will not admit to me her physical impairments.
Every student must sign our handbook, acknowledging the requirements and it is disclosed to our students that all jobs post-grad will have physical requirements that must be met to maintain that job/position.
As long as we are honest and disclose what is required, and the student is up for the challenge...then I am all for supporting any student in their endeavors for their career choice.
Kandy,
I gather, from your description, that you are either in nursing or some related area. While I agree that programs have the right to establish technical standards, that does not mean that the standards stated by a program are appropriate or legally defensible as not being discriminatory. I don't know what your standards are, so I am not suggesting anything about your institution -- just talking in general. Things like "be able to stand, stoop, kneel and grasp" or "able to stand for extended periods of time" are NOT legitimately defensible technical standards for a nursing program -- although I see them listed all the time. If you would like more information about how to "troubleshoot" the technical standards at your institution, please feel free to contact me directly at JaneJarrow@aol.com.
Dr. Jane Jarrow
