many today do not realize the amout of money they are borrowing to get the education and how long it will take to pay back.  The call mom for more money and then blow it on junk. The also tend to memeorize patterns and not the material. If i give them schematic they memorize it and then if i draw it in reverse on the last week of class the cannot differentiat the components many identify the components as they were not what they do and how they work and follow the flow.

   Many students do not tend to take attendance seriously they fell we are going to review the material soome time so they do not tkae notes or listen as much as before. 

I hate to seem like I'm going against the grain of what many have practiced for years in this industry. However, the typical admissions process is way off the mark in my opinion. Today, its all about meeting my individual goals and not being concerned with the students needs. And again I can't fault the admissions representatives because they have a job to do. The pressure is so intense for them, they can't help but to focus on winning at all cost! But if we all just sat down and really thought about this thing....it really just boils down to CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!! Today's students are NO different from todays shoppers at Wal-mart, Target or Walgreens. I like low prices at Wal-mart but on most days I would rather not deal with the attitude, or not being able to get the help I need or maybe even the long lines...so on those days when the shopping experience is REALLY important to me I will go to Target. Or if I just want to get in an out Walgreens is probably my first stop. If admissions representatives could stop focusing on getting students to sign on the dotted line, and focus on getting the student the HELP that he or she needs this industry might get somewhere. In my opinion career colleges will WIN everytime if they start focusing on the metrics of customer service instead of enrollments.

Very well said!  I'm also glad not to be the lone voice saying the typical admissions process doesn't work!  When it comes to ethical behavior, organizational values must be something more than what is written in the catalog or a website.  They have to be shared and imbedded.  Instead we see the UGR's (unwritten ground rules) or as you mention, the way business is REALLY done, dominating.  Beyond not serving the student well, these approaches aren't even effective.  People will pay more for things they want (including the experience they seek) as you mention.  I truly believe admission reps WANT to do the right thing and somehow think they are doing what is in the student's best interest.  So how do we convince the rest of the sector?

That's a great question. I wish I had an answer to this. But the culture of this industry has been this way obviously for years. How do you convince managers, supervisors and directors that what they have been implementing and training is no longer effective? I can see admissions representatives starting to push back. I hope it doesn't take another news brief or the Senate coming down extremely hard before this sector wakes up to what's really important.

This is interesting to me for the fact that I am coming out of the teaching side of education and I plan on using the same techniques with my former students.  I think people are looking for honesty and someone who actually is willing to assist them, guide them, and discipline them.  So I guess from what I'm reading from you both that reps need to decide if they want the money or if they actually want to help another individual change their life and obtain their goals educationally and career.  Maybe I'm still old school in that honesty is the best policy, and a hand shake is more binding than a signiture on the dotted line.  I'm just starting in this profession so we shall see.

Paul - I think you've hit the nail on the head.  Maybe it's not as much about training people but untraining what has gotent in the way of them being "real".  And for the record, I believe it is possible to be effective and ethical vs. a choice (ie make money while helping another person change their life). 

One point I would like to make is that some times what the students hear in admissions is not the case in the classroom. I do not like to see students upset with the demands of the program. If it is an accelerated program students must be prepared to work hard and to meet the deadlines.

In some of my classes I see some weak students who to not want to work at it. Some of them have attitudes and although I do believe the students should come first, it remains that in some classes students are rude and disruptive.  Rather then dealing with the situation that other students crave (discipline) students are asked to leave the classroom. In this case, the students can miss 4 hours of class. I am not in favor of this procedure. There are other teaching practices that work better.